[rumori] new thread
Steev [rumori] new thread
Tue, 11 Aug 1998 02:35:47 -0700 (PDT) (00902856947, Pine.LNX.4.02.9808110210130.11999-100000ATflotsam.detritus.net)
On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Boster, Bob wrote:
>I've been thinking a lot about the fundamental differences between the
>kind of work that comes out of processes involving appropriation and
>those where a practitioner is attempting to reveal a vision from her/his
Hmm. Do you really think those 2 things are mutually exclusive?
>Sterling novel, _Holy Fire_. Interesting scree in there about the
>discrepancy between art and artifice, which might apply to the above
>thread. Note that he does a good job of undercutting this stuff with
>some grounded attacks but I'm not able to include them here...I've cut
>down to the core statements... I won't try to make sense out of his use
>of the idea posthuman (if you're interested enough, read the novel -
>it's worth the time). Suffice it to say, in the novel they've managed to
>extend the normal human life span to something in the neighborhood of
>125 years, with some folks lasting longer.
I guess I'd have to read the whole book to get it, to understand this
"posthuman" idea, but right off the bat i don't think simply extending the
lifespan to 125 years is going to bringabout the kinds of changes
described in the quotes you cite. I've thought a lot about what would
happpen if humans got their lifespans to be really extended, like in the
1000 year to infinity range; i think in that case everything would truly
start to get different, culture, psychology, etc. but 125? big deal.
>"The destruction of the human condition offers us an avalanche of novel
>creative approaches. Those possibilities must be assimilated and
>systematically deployed by the heirs of humanity. Artifice is not Art.
>Although it deploys the imagination of the preconscious, it recognizes
>that the imagination of the unconscious is impoverished. We honor the
>irrationality of the creative impulse, but we deny the primacy or even
>the relevancy of hallucination. We harness the full power of conscious
>rationality and the scientific method in pursuit of the voluntary
>destruction and supercession of human culture."
I don't get this. this sounds like a cross between Hakim Bey and Hitler.
I suppose the assumption here is that if we live twice as long everyone
will have this enlightened free time in which to be creative and beautiful
and smart. but that's not neccesarily true. some other things have gotta
happen, also. maybe they do, in the book.
(chances are, if we live longer, that will just mean more time for our
corporate masters to extract use-value from us, i.e. more time to work and
consume. and just think, with nostalgia stretching back over a century,
marketeers could *really* start some retro trends!)
>"The human condition is over. Nature is over. Art is over.
>Consciousness is ductile. Science is an infinite powder keg. We
yuck. i'm just not getting (into?) this. like i said, maybe i should read
the whole thing.
Speaking of cyberpunk novels with a relevance to art and philosophy, i
just read Gibson's Idoru. Might be his best book yet. Lots of
interesting stuff about popular culture. Most relevant is the way
the fans of this pop band appropriate the work they're admiring and build
virtual worlds out of it, construct whole universes of data that are
woven from the art and lives of their idols. Pretty cool, as it posits a
culture where consumers of mass media still have the will and the ability
to be creative and mix stuff up...
Steev Hise, Wannabe Has-Been
recycled art site: http://www.detritus.net
"No matter what they're charging to get in, it's worth more to get out."
-Roger Ebert reviewing the film "Armageddon"