From david at locarecords.com Fri Jul 1 10:57:45 2005 From: david at locarecords.com (David Meme) Date: Fri Jul 1 10:57:00 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Libre Commons Licenses Message-ID: <09A1B171-3DD2-4285-BF30-AD0BCE8375B4@locarecords.com> http://www.libresociety.org/library/libre.pl/Libre_Commons Libre Commons Welcome to the Libre Commons Licenses. This is a project to develop non-legal licenses that will operate in the shared space that can non- bureaucratically and non-instrumentally be formed resisting law, the intellectual property regime and state violence. These licenses are written explicitly against the presuppositions and caveats of the Creative Commons licenses which (un)consciously seek to use culture as purely a resource. Instead these licenses are anti-licenses; ethical frameworks or chromosomes of social practices. Rather than relying on law or legal fictions (written by clever lawyers) these Libre Commons licenses are explicitly social and political, aiming to radicalise and uncover the basis of commonalty and shared life. Where Creative Commons is seeking hegemony and representative status, becoming an obligatory passage point for creativity, the Libre Commons rejects bureaucratic attempts to overcode the social through law. They affirm the most important part of shared creativity, namely the intersubjective recognition and affirmation that commonalty provides. As such, it is hoped these licenses will help to avoid the claims of 'experts' who seek to assist us in our production and creativity. We hope that you will use the Libre Commons licenses to contribute to these practices and to set in motion an enormous capacity for innovation that can transform reality itself. Another world is possible, a better more democratic world and this project aims to contribute towards fostering desire for that world. Background The development of information and knowledge as important new economic resources differs from previous uses which were embedded within the commodity itself. There has been a move away from the importance of material inputs (which previously were critical elements in production) to ideas and knowledge as contributing significant value to the product, often referred to as trade-related intellectual property. Immaterial Labour is based on things held in common being commodified in order to generate profit. Changes in capitalism, mean that profit is increasingly reliant on intellectual property, dividing different forms of social relationship so capital can benefit. Intellectual property is a site of global struggle between those who wish to own what is currently free and held in common between us, and those that wish to commodify all areas of our lives. Choosing a License Offering your work under a Libre Commons license does mean giving up your copyright. It means offering contributing the work to the commonalty and towards radical social practices. What conditions? That you together with your work contribute to a shared resource of radical democracy and collective social transformation through affirmative and positive social production. There are currently two Libre Commons licenses to choose from. Note: These licenses reject state and international law and are predicating on ethical and political practices not on lawyers and state violence. Libre Commons Res Communes License This license declares your work to a common that is shared between us as human beings. It is therefore owned in common with others. Libre Commons Res Divini Juris License This license declares your work to the realm of the gods. Where as a moment of clearing it contributes to a permanent state of exception rejecting state law and liberal conceptions of the nation state. Libre Commons Res Communes License Welcome to the Libre Commons Res Communes License The commons is usually defined as that which is shared in communally with others. This can, for example, by a resource, such as land or water, and it is owned by the members of the community. The commons has traditionally been limited to a local community right and to a physical resource, such as a forest, but has been used to refer to the space of intellectual thought, ideas and concepts as an ?ideas commons?, an ?innovation commons?, an ?intellectual commons?, a ?digital commons?, an inevitably an ?e-commons?, ?the public domain? or ?Intellectual Space?. This license commits the work that is inscribed with this Res Communes license to the shared common that all can draw from and reuse. License text The Res Communes license is designed to reject a state-centred legal construct of a commons (or commons without commonalty) in order to concentrate on creating a common which is shared between us in collective practices (a commons with commonalty). The 'Commune' or the 'Commonalty' originally meant 'the people of the whole realm' or 'all the King's subjects' as opposed to the King, the Nobles or the 'Commons' in Parliament. We here refer to the commonalty to refer to the global multitude, the people of the whole world. 1. This work is outside of all legal jurisidiction and takes its force and action from the constituent radical democratic practices of the global multitude against the logic of capital. 2. All work that is so inscribed should bear the text '(L) Libre Commons Res Communes License'. 3. As a user of this license the work is available to be shared and used as part of a common substrate that is shared between us. Libre Commons Res Divini Juris License Temples, tombs, religious statues and places were considered to belong to no one because they were in the service of the gods, the impediment to being turned into property was not natural but divine. Following Heidegger's call that only a God can save us, the God in question is that that can produce a clearing, the possibility of another place, making a different world. Drawn from a concept of Specis Being, works that are contributed to the Res Divini Juris are commited to the human specis as a whole. Beyond Temporal Law and the liberal legal system, we could think of it as a space of the permanent state of exception. License text The Res Divini Juris license is designed to so that spaces can be opened up, and offer the possibility of contestation and debate which can discuss matters of public importance as a practical activity. What is endangered under modern capitalism is a source of resistance. Treating everything as resources makes possible endless disaggregation, redistribution, and reaggregation for its own sake. This can be seen as a period of deindustrialisation and growth in the communicational and semiotic as generators of surplus value in the period after the second world war, the informational economy has emerged as a moment where capitalism seeks to enclosure cultural texts to maximise profit, the shift from the consumption of goods to the consumption of experiences. Alternatively, background practices work by gathering and so bringing things into their own. The gathering of local practices around things produces temporary, self-enclosed local worlds that can resist the totalising and dispersing effects of the flexible and efficient ordering under capitalism. 1. By using this license you are agreeing to allow your work to be shared as a step on the path of revealing. Within the realm of the gods, the work will contribute to a shared new world of collective practices and networks of singularities operating within a non- instrumental and communal life. 2. All work that is so inscribed should bear the text '(L) Libre Commons Res Divini Juris License'. 3. This license operates under a permanent state of exception. It is a result of radical democratic practices beyond the state. 4. Users of the license are committed to political action and social struggle. From wobbly at detritus.net Fri Jul 1 23:39:15 2005 From: wobbly at detritus.net (Jon Leidecker) Date: Fri Jul 1 23:43:36 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Chart Sweep - Keesing Lives Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 5940 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://detritus.net/pipermail/rumori/attachments/20050701/8fdc2e82/attachment.bin From steev at detritus.net Sun Jul 3 08:57:16 2005 From: steev at detritus.net (Steev Hise) Date: Sun Jul 3 08:57:23 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Re: dumb content type filtering on the list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on Sat, 2 Jul 2005 Jon Leidecker told me: ->oh shit. looks just like a virus. I can't even launch it. -> ->steev, is this all anybody saw of my rumori post? I don't get my own posts ->sent back to me whenever I send something to rumori anymore... hmm. the email got to me just fine as regular email, via the list. but Nelson is getting the digest mode. maybe that does weird shit with non plaintext emails. i have seen that sort of thing before, i think. ...yes, its the same way in tthe archive but it gives you a link to click and that takes you to the actual message. http://detritus.net/pipermail/rumori/2005-July/001694.html that's still a bit lame tho. i'll see if i can set the list to not do that. as for not getting your own posts, that's something you can control in yr personal list settings here: http://detritus.net/mailman/options/rumori chao, steev ->>what this then? ->>Jon Nelson ->> ->>> Message: 1 ->>> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 23:39:15 -0700 ->>> From: Jon Leidecker ->>> Subject: [Rumori] Chart Sweep - Keesing Lives ->>> To: "Detritus discussion list." ->>> ->>> Message-ID: ->>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ->>> ->>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... ->>> Name: not available ->>> Type: text/enriched ->>> Size: 5941 bytes ->>> Desc: not available ->>> Url : ->>> ->>http://detritus.net/pipermail/rumori/attachments/20050701/8fdc2e82/attachment-0 ->>001.bin ->>> Steev Hise | steev@detritus.net | http://detritus.net/steev Donate to the Computers for Bolivia Project: http://villaingenio.org/computers/donate.html blog: http://steev.hise.org | gpg public key: http://steev.hise.org/gpgkey.txt ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Activism is my rent for living on this planet." - Alice Walker ----------------------------------------------------------------- From pan at sensoryresearch.com Sun Jul 3 15:10:07 2005 From: pan at sensoryresearch.com (Pan) Date: Sun Jul 3 16:13:05 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Plundercast Stream Tonight Message-ID: This week's installation of Plundercast features DJs/performers from such diverse places as Korea, Australia and France. Tune in for live collage, electronica and experimental music until late tonight. 7:00PM - 3:00AM EDT http://www.plundercast.net/ Pan From boster at pobox.com Mon Jul 4 09:45:16 2005 From: boster at pobox.com (Bob Boster) Date: Mon Jul 4 11:16:05 2005 Subject: [Rumori] idea to port over to audio domain? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050704093454.03919ab0@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> bb> Got tweaked to the Yellow Arrow Project on another list I'm on and I think it has promise. Even more so for audio... If someone has nothing better to do that port this over to a revised version for audio, I think it would be a great public service, not to mention probably a lifelong gig with some clever grant writing. Sounds like an Aaron Ximm kind of thing, but the more the merrier... Source Site: http://global.yellowarrow.net/ Nice Washington Post article: > Targeting the 'Art' Around Every Corner > > By Tommy Nguyen > > A bright arrow hovering over the rush of city life usually means "get > moving": Hang a left, take a right, barrel straight ahead. But the bright > yellow arrow stickers that have started popping up in the Washington area > have a different goal: to slow people down, maybe even stop them for a moment. > > Launched last summer by Counts Media, a New York-based arts and gaming > company, the Yellow Arrow Project is a kind of geographical blogging. > Adherents have been placing the palm-size stickers -- each with a unique > code -- on street signs, city monuments, store windows, abandoned > buildings -- anywhere, really, that observers encounter what they deem to > be "art." Then, using a cell phone, they send a brief text message -- > which could be an interesting historical fact, a restaurant review or > just some goofy poetry -- to Yellow Arrow. People who come across an > arrow can call the Yellow Arrow phone number, punch in the sticker's code > and receive that message. > > Outside a building at Seventh and S streets in Northwest Washington, for > example, the sticker offers up this discovery: Old wonderbread factorys > not abandoned. a bike graveyard inside. > > Another, posted in an auditorium at George Mason University, conveys a > hopeful dream: And even though today we play to an empty house, perhaps > tomorrow the whole world will applaud . > > "It's a creative platform where people can contribute collectively to > the places they live," explains Jesse Shapins, Counts Media's creative > development manager. So far, he says, about 2,800 arrows -- which are > sold on Yellowarrow.net for 50 cents each -- have been planted and > registered by participants worldwide, from New York to Berlin to Cairns, > Australia. More than 100 of them are in the Washington area. > > Molly Aeck, who placed the Wonder Bread arrow, is one of the area's more > dedicated participants. Aeck, 23 and a recent Stanford grad, has gone the > extra step of logging 11 of her arrows on the project's Web site, > complete with digital snapshots and a helpful locator map. > > On a scorching weekday afternoon, she is walking along 14th Street NW > with a yellow arrow stuck to her index finger, looking for her next > target. Her arrow seems to be wilting. > > For the academically-inclined Aeck, the arrow project is reminiscent of > the place-based artistic expressions of the situationist movement, a > group of 1950s thinkers and artists who, among other things, theorized > about the pleasures of a process they dubbed "psychogeography." > > "These situationists would walk around and fall into these > 'observational drifts' -- to find new perspectives in urban life," she > says. "It's an appreciation for observing things around you." > > The situationists originated in Italy, where they must have drifted > around on cooler days. Aeck's sticker is beginning to curl up. > > "I think these arrows can engage a passerby who doesn't have time but > just to pass by," she says. > > Many more people are likely to pass by them in the future. That's > because about 300,000 more stickers are being released through "Lonely > Planet's Guide to Experimental Travel," the guidebook empire's foray into > eccentric, participatory tourism. (It suggests, for example, writing a > poem about every main square visited.) Six bright stickers come with > every book. > > "It's about the personal experience," Shapins says. "There are stories > in these arrows that you can't find in a conventional map." > > Most of the postings on Yellowarrow.net are more playful and poetic than > pointed, but some people have used the project to create action. > > Aeck, for example, chose as one of her targets a place called Cafe > Collage, on T Street near 14th, next to the restaurant Cafe Saint-Ex. She > lives nearby and used to hang out there before it was closed down because > of permit problems. She'd like to do so again, so she sticks an arrow > just below the front window. Her message: > > open Collage! a meeting place for artists and writers. The waitresses at > Cafe SaintX next door can tell you how to contribute to Collages revival. > > Howard Rheingold, author of "Smart Mobs," "The Virtual Community" and > other writings that deal with communication technology's role in > activating communities, says he likes the idea of collective voices like these. > > "There are two separate but connected issues here," Rheingold says. > "One, using the cyber-world to connect people's opinions, information and > places in the physical world. The other is the bottom-up part: People > making things happen, and even changing policies, from the bottom up." > > Shapins says the company has been approached with ideas from a variety > of groups, including bicycle advocates in Boston seeking to create safer > streets and politicians in Europe who think arrows might be useful in > election campaigns. > > And it's not the only project of its kind. Another New York-based > effort, Grafedia (a melding of "graffiti" and "multimedia") lets people > set up e-mail addresses using the @grafedia.net suffix, and then > automatically send out images, videos or sound files to others who > message them. Murmur, based in Toronto, works like Yellow Arrow but > returns audio recordings instead of text messages. > > Rheingold says the trend is exciting, but the arrows themselves are a > sticky issue for him. > > "I would really like to see this yellow arrow as a temporary on-ramp to > something very virtual," Rheingold says. "I would hate to see the world > covered with more debris." > > Kenneth Bryson, a D.C. police spokesman, doesn't sound too thrilled, either. > > "We can certainly appreciate arts projects," Bryson says. But "when it > comes to defacing property, we ask that citizens cooperate with their > local law enforcement." (Yellow Arrow discourages placing arrows on > private property without permission.) > > Aeck says that she doesn't want to see a city full of arrows, "but the > positive aspects of the project outweigh the reservations I have about > it." And so she goes back out into the streets with sheets of yellow > arrows in her bag, ready to aim her thoughts at the heart of the city. > > > Would you like to send this article to a friend? Go to >http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/emailafriend?contentId=AR2005070102280&sent=no&referrer=emailarticle > > From steev at detritus.net Mon Jul 4 18:05:51 2005 From: steev at detritus.net (Steev Hise) Date: Mon Jul 4 18:05:56 2005 Subject: [Rumori] idea to port over to audio domain? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050704093454.03919ab0@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> Message-ID: on Mon, 4 Jul 2005 Bob Boster told me: ->bb> Got tweaked to the Yellow Arrow Project on another list I'm on and I ->think it has promise. Even more so for audio... If someone has nothing ->better to do that port this over to a revised version for audio, I think it ->would be a great public service, not to mention probably a lifelong gig ->with some clever grant writing. Sounds like an Aaron Ximm kind of thing, ->but the more the merrier... Muy intersante. especially since i just found out and blogged about Geotagging last week: http://detritus.net/steev/mt/archives/000397.html (basically a database of photos tagged to coordinates on the globe, using Flickr, Google, and some custom software) I share Rheingold's reservations about littering the world with yellow trash. i like the idea of *invisible* tags - what if you had a PDA/GPS unit that automatically told you when you passed by a location that had been tagged? no unsightly sticker involved. funny how they mention the Situationists but get it wrong, they started in France not Italy. plus, i dunno, the psychogeographical seems in direct friction with the cybernetic nature of the yellow arrow thing. computerizing (mechanizing, automating) the whole experience of wandering and discovering was, i think, never a priority of Debord's, or Benjamin's or Baudelaire's either http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SI/en/display/314 http://www.eng.fju.edu.tw/Literary_Criticism/postmodernism/postmo_urban/flaneur.html but maybe that's just my luddic interpretation... but anyway what would be an audio version? when you see an arrow, look up the appropriate podcast on your Ipod, and listen? or when you hear an arrow? ;-) thanx bob! smh Steev Hise | steev@detritus.net | http://detritus.net/steev Donate to the Computers for Bolivia Project: http://villaingenio.org/computers/donate.html blog: http://steev.hise.org | gpg public key: http://steev.hise.org/gpgkey.txt ----------------------------------------------------------------- "millenial bug fix: all years mandated to reverse. overwrite all past." -Christopher Hanis ----------------------------------------------------------------- From boster at pobox.com Tue Jul 5 09:51:01 2005 From: boster at pobox.com (Bob Boster) Date: Tue Jul 5 09:58:17 2005 Subject: [Rumori] idea to port over to audio domain? In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050704093454.03919ab0@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050705093836.026e4748@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> bb> I'm less concerned about the yellow garbage issues for the following reasons: 1) If someone can invent a bio-degradable plastic garbage bag (I'm using them now), then certainly a bio-degradable post-it note is simple... 2) The idea of a spectator using some additional object (a yellow arrow) to litter the world minutely towards creating more artwork seems fairly benign. Given that I'm actually pro-tagging, this is a very minor consideration given how low the impact is. 3) The object itself is then subject to further hacking (adoption, redirection, etc.) in ways that are also interesting and in ways that an "invisible" tag would not be. As to the audio version, I'm not sure about the application, but ideally some way to be cued to identify a space where some systematic audio event is happening, or even likely to happen, and then contact a registry that would then text you a message identifying what the initial observation was. In a perfect world a listener could then text back an update, which could be appended to the initial message for future listeners. Imagine the opportunity to even compose with same via the text by sending the new listener back instructions like: "play along with the subway sounds by tapping the rusty gate with a pencil in a counter rhythm..." or "get your friend to hum 'frere jacques' facing NW into the bus stop - acts as a resonator - while the bhangra blaring from the store front serves as an audio bed, then trade places..." At 06:05 PM 7/4/2005 -0700, Steev Hise wrote: >on Mon, 4 Jul 2005 Bob Boster told me: > >->bb> Got tweaked to the Yellow Arrow Project on another list I'm on and I >->think it has promise. Even more so for audio... If someone has nothing >->better to do that port this over to a revised version for audio, I think it >->would be a great public service, not to mention probably a lifelong gig >->with some clever grant writing. Sounds like an Aaron Ximm kind of thing, >->but the more the merrier... > >Muy intersante. especially since i just found out and blogged >about Geotagging last week: >http://detritus.net/steev/mt/archives/000397.html >(basically a database of photos tagged to coordinates on the >globe, using Flickr, Google, and some custom software) > >I share Rheingold's reservations about littering the world with >yellow trash. i like the idea of *invisible* tags - what if you >had a PDA/GPS unit that automatically told you when you passed by >a location that had been tagged? no unsightly sticker involved. > >funny how they mention the Situationists but get it wrong, >they started in France not Italy. plus, i dunno, the >psychogeographical seems in direct friction with the >cybernetic nature of the yellow arrow thing. computerizing >(mechanizing, automating) the whole experience of wandering and >discovering was, i think, never >a priority of Debord's, or Benjamin's or Baudelaire's either >http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SI/en/display/314 >http://www.eng.fju.edu.tw/Literary_Criticism/postmodernism/postmo_urban/flaneur.html >but maybe that's just my luddic interpretation... > >but anyway what would be an audio version? when you see an >arrow, look up the appropriate podcast on your Ipod, and listen? >or when you hear an arrow? ;-) > >thanx bob! > >smh > >Steev Hise | steev@detritus.net | http://detritus.net/steev >Donate to the Computers for Bolivia Project: >http://villaingenio.org/computers/donate.html >blog: http://steev.hise.org | gpg public key: http://steev.hise.org/gpgkey.txt >----------------------------------------------------------------- >"millenial bug fix: all years mandated to reverse. overwrite all past." > -Christopher Hanis >----------------------------------------------------------------- > > >_______________________________________________ >Rumori mailing list >Rumori@detritus.net >http://detritus.net/mailman/listinfo/rumori >older archives: http://detritus.net/contact/rumori/ From steev at detritus.net Tue Jul 5 13:50:56 2005 From: steev at detritus.net (Steev Hise) Date: Tue Jul 5 13:50:59 2005 Subject: [Rumori] idea to port over to audio domain? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050705093836.026e4748@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> Message-ID: on Tue, 5 Jul 2005 Bob Boster told me: ->bb> I'm less concerned about the yellow garbage issues for the following ->reasons: -> ->1) If someone can invent a bio-degradable plastic garbage bag (I'm using ->them now), then certainly a bio-degradable post-it note is simple... ah, now we're veering back into topic, excellent. heh. I recently read a book called "Rubbish," by anthropologists that excavate landfills to learn about how people live. They discovered that even supposedly biodegradable stuff doesn't degrade, in landfills. they found banana peels 50 years old, for example. in fact, things only biodegrade under very certain circumstances. so those garbage bags might make you feel better but they and everything in them will be intact long after we are wormfood, probably. on the other hand another of the many myths about garbage revealed to be myth in that book is that we are not actually running out of room to put our garbage. there's plenty of space for landfills. there's just not plenty of will, thanx to NIMBYism. plus, are these stickers supposed to be biodegradable? i didnt see that in the article. ->2) The idea of a spectator using some additional object (a yellow arrow) to ->litter the world minutely towards creating more artwork seems fairly ->benign. Given that I'm actually pro-tagging, this is a very minor ->consideration given how low the impact is. it's hard to say how low the impact would be, i think. if i, as a wandering, traveller, or whatever, see a yellow arrow sticker at every site of note, say in downtown Paris, i would be pretty annoyed. i'm already irritated when i travel and see armies of other travellers toting the same Lonely Planet guidebook. it's an aesthetic thing, then, i guess. by tagging i guess you mean grafitti tagging? i like creative and beautiful grafitti, but i'm against gang tags and ugly tags. but perhaps the comparison is not that apt, because on one hand we have poor street kids with spray paint and on the other we have rich privileged owners of gps/sms-capabable cellphones and college degrees. something about these yellow arrows bothers me even more than the sprayed-on symbols announcing "this is my gang's turf, members of other gangs, stay away or we'll knife you." ->3) The object itself is then subject to further hacking (adoption, ->redirection, etc.) in ways that are also interesting and in ways that an ->"invisible" tag would not be. true, good point. it will be interesting, perhaps, to see what uses users put to the Yellow Arrow system that the creators perhaps did not forsee. chao, smh Steev Hise | steev@detritus.net | http://detritus.net/steev Donate to the Computers for Bolivia Project: http://villaingenio.org/computers/donate.html blog: http://steev.hise.org | gpg public key: http://steev.hise.org/gpgkey.txt ----------------------------------------------------------------- "You gotta have a dream, 'cause if you don't have a dream, how ya gonna have a dream come true?" -Daniel Johnston ----------------------------------------------------------------- From boster at pobox.com Wed Jul 6 07:33:17 2005 From: boster at pobox.com (Bob Boster) Date: Wed Jul 6 07:40:37 2005 Subject: [Rumori] idea to port over to audio domain? In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050705093836.026e4748@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050706072352.0399a5c8@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> bb> One last swing at this and then back to work.... At 01:50 PM 7/5/2005 -0700, Steev wrote: >I recently read a book called "Rubbish," by anthropologists that >excavate landfills to learn about how people live. They >discovered that even supposedly biodegradable stuff doesn't >degrade, in landfills. they found banana peels 50 years old, for >example. in fact, things only biodegrade under very >certain circumstances. so those garbage bags might make you feel >better but they and everything in them will be intact long after >we are wormfood, probably. bb> Still, a big difference between 50 years and 50,000...my guess is that anything designed to biodegrade, however specious the term, is still likely to have a shorter half-life than a McDonald's coffee stirrer. >plus, are these stickers supposed to be biodegradable? i didnt >see that in the article. bb> No, but I suggest thinking that through for the ambitious person who takes on the audio version... >it's hard to say how low the impact would be, i think. if i, as a >wandering, traveller, or whatever, see a yellow arrow sticker at >every site of note, say in downtown Paris, i would be pretty >annoyed. i'm already irritated when i travel and see armies of >other travellers toting the same Lonely Planet guidebook. bb> Remember, not every site of note, only every site where someone is recompiling the extant visual (or in our case audio) elements into artwork through OBSERVATION. >it's an aesthetic thing, then, i guess. by tagging i guess you >mean grafitti tagging? i like creative and beautiful grafitti, >but i'm against gang tags and ugly tags. bb> Freedom fighter/terrorist... >but perhaps the comparison is not that apt, because on one hand >we have poor street kids with spray paint and on the other we >have rich privileged owners of gps/sms-capabable cellphones and >college degrees. something about these yellow arrows bothers me >even more than the sprayed-on symbols announcing "this is my >gang's turf, members of other gangs, stay away or we'll knife >you." bb> I hate to pick nits, but why does one of these groups have any more "right" to adjust the physical world than another? Disenfranchisement is not, in itself, a justification for ownership of "the commons" any more than being of the owner class. In fact, more "contamination" of the visual space by "non-native" visitors (although frankly, I wonder about the "street kids" thing...) is probably another productive Althusserian crack in the superstructure, regardless of the class association of the contaminator. From steev at detritus.net Wed Jul 6 09:39:03 2005 From: steev at detritus.net (Steev Hise) Date: Wed Jul 6 09:39:07 2005 Subject: [Rumori] idea to port over to political domain? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050706072352.0399a5c8@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> Message-ID: on Wed, 6 Jul 2005 Bob Boster told me: ->bb> One last swing at this and then back to work.... (Yeah I should be working too. maybe I should just be dropping this now. or taking it off list. does anyone else have any opinion? why do mailing list discussions always get so bipolar? ) ->>annoyed. i'm already irritated when i travel and see armies of ->>other travellers toting the same Lonely Planet guidebook. -> ->bb> Remember, not every site of note, only every site where someone is ->recompiling the extant visual (or in our case audio) elements into artwork ->through OBSERVATION. well, there's art and then there's art. just like there's backpackers and then there's backpackers. i'm just contemplating the 300,000 stickers being included with Lonely Planet guidebooks, and thinking about how I used to think that everyone who travelled "the Lonely Planet way" must be cool and interesting, and then I found out that's not even close to being true. ->>college degrees. something about these yellow arrows bothers me ->>even more than the sprayed-on symbols announcing "this is my ->>gang's turf, members of other gangs, stay away or we'll knife ->>you." -> ->bb> I hate to pick nits, but why does one of these groups have any more ->"right" to adjust the physical world than another? Disenfranchisement is ->not, in itself, a justification for ownership of "the commons" any more ->than being of the owner class. well, first of all i wasnt saying i approved of the gang grafitti, or that the "gang" should "own" the street to a greater extent than the yellow arrowers. by definition the commons is owned by everyone, right? but i do think disenfranchisement IS a justification, not for "owning", but for certain behaviors that constitute struggles for control of, the commons - behaviors that woudl otherwise not be justified. arguments against the commons always come from the owner class. that's because they know they don't NEED a commons, they already own or will own a corresponding private version of everything. and to a certain extent that's true. so isn't it more important, given the world we live in (see below) to guarantee and fight for the rights of the poor and marginalized to acccess the commons? again i don't approve of gang grafitti. i don't approve of kids, even poor kids, defacing the homes of poor working class families. And I can imagine cool stuff to be done with the yellow stickers. so I wasn't saying that ALL grafitti is better than ALL uses of the yellow stickers. I was just expressing a gut feeling, that the project bothers me. you're right, in theory - ideally, IMHO, the "'right' to adjust the physical world" would come through concensus-based collective decision making amongst members of the community where the adjustment is to be made, and indeed everything would be in the commons, except each person's toothbrush and other such personal and in-use private property. but we don't live in that kind of world right now. so compensatory behavior ends up being more appropriate than in an ideal world. just like, for instance, affirmative action. ->In fact, more "contamination" of the visual ->space by "non-native" visitors (although frankly, I wonder about the ->"street kids" thing...) is probably another productive Althusserian crack ->in the superstructure, regardless of the class association of the contaminator. bob i hate to say it but this seems like a really priveleged thing to say. I'm not too up on my Althusser (isn't 'superstructure' just another word for culture?), but for me the rights of the people who live (really live, not just own property or do business there) in a place, any place, who make up a community, the rights of those people to determine what happens in that place should always take precedence over those of any visitor. an across-the-board valorization of "contamination" seems way off the mark. of course you put the word in quotes for a reason. what is contamination? it's like "noise", right? and we here on this list just love noise, right? but even as someone who's been described as a creator of "noise music" i've never approved of ALL noise in ANY situation. maybe i'd be happier with the yellow arrow project if it was a rule that you could only put arrows in your own community or with the consent of the community - but it's like what i think happens with most "public art." some artist from outside the community gets a grant to put some sculpture in a park or street corner and doesn't consult the people that live there, doesn't know anything about the place, though he might think he does. why should he get to crack someone else's superstructure? over and out, smh Steev Hise | steev@detritus.net | http://detritus.net/steev Donate to the Computers for Bolivia Project: http://villaingenio.org/computers/donate.html blog: http://steev.hise.org | gpg public key: http://steev.hise.org/gpgkey.txt ----------------------------------------------------------------- "If only it weren't for the people, the goddamned people, always getting tangled up in the machinery. If it weren't for them, earth would be an engineer's paradise." -Kurt Vonnegut, "Player Piano" ----------------------------------------------------------------- From boster at pobox.com Wed Jul 6 13:07:37 2005 From: boster at pobox.com (Bob Boster) Date: Wed Jul 6 13:08:14 2005 Subject: [Rumori] idea to port over to political domain? In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050706072352.0399a5c8@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050706124027.0407d3f0@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> bb> OK, I can't help it - and no one else has anything to add, so why not? At 09:39 AM 7/6/2005 -0700, Steev wrote: >an across-the-board valorization of "contamination" seems way off >the mark. bb> I think if you re-read what I wrote, that you'd find the phrase "across-the-board valorization" is a bit of an exaggeration... I did say both "probably" and also acknowledged that it could be just "another" of many... >maybe i'd be happier with the yellow arrow project if it was a >rule that you could only put arrows in your own community or with >the consent of the community - but it's like what i think happens >with most "public art." some artist from outside the community >gets a grant to put some sculpture in a park or street >corner and doesn't consult the people that live there, doesn't >know anything about the place, though he might think he does. why >should he get to crack someone else's superstructure? bb> The question I have with this is who gets to define whose community I belong to? Is it by some number of miles around my primary dwelling in northern CA? If so, who gets to say how many miles? What about someone who has multiple dwellings? Or perhaps it's based on some less physical idea of community - i.e. you or I could do it in Silver Lake or Santa Monica or Brooklyn or Williamsburg, but not Beverly Hills or the Upper West Side because 'our people' are in the one area, but not in the other... From where I sit (admittedly in a position of privilege, but also with gang graffiti on my garage), I just think physical geography is less and less relevant all the time. I spent an hour on the phone the morning with a guy in Chevak, AK who I have more in common with than nearly the entire population of the county I live in (Solano). And give your recent travels, I would think this is true for you too... Also, as discussed earlier, just because someone puts one of these things up, doesn't mean that your hypothetically-outraged-disenfranchised-person-who-lives-on-that-block can't take it down again, or point it at a urinal, or even send a denial of service attack to the server that hosts the project... It's not like the outsider has come into a given neighborhood and left behind a McDonald's or the forward operating base of the 1st Brigade/25th Infantry Division, just a yellow post it note in the shape of an arrow. I'm surprised to see a champion of radical recontextualization indicating that permission should be required for public art making of a recontextualization bent. (Cheap shot I know...but at least it gets us squarely back on topic.) bb> As an effort to get us onto another track, was there anything with even a tangential appropriation bent on even a single Live8 bill this past Saturday? Did anyone on the list participate in either a concert or demonstration that was associated with same? From steev at detritus.net Wed Jul 6 16:18:36 2005 From: steev at detritus.net (Steev Hise) Date: Wed Jul 6 16:18:40 2005 Subject: [Rumori] idea to port over to political domain? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050706124027.0407d3f0@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> Message-ID: on Wed, 6 Jul 2005 Bob Boster told me: ->bb> I think if you re-read what I wrote, that you'd find the phrase ->"across-the-board valorization" is a bit of an exaggeration... I did say ->both "probably" and also acknowledged that it could be just "another" of ->many... you're right, i exagerated your position. ->other... From where I sit (admittedly in a position of privilege, but also ->with gang graffiti on my garage), I just think physical geography is less ->and less relevant all the time. I spent an hour on the phone the morning ->with a guy in Chevak, AK who I have more in common with than nearly the ->entire population of the county I live in (Solano). And give your recent ->travels, I would think this is true for you too... to some extent, true, and we've heard about this every since the 'digital revolution' began. but still, physically where our bodies are will always be the most important (at least until we learn how to 'upload' ourselves into The Matrix), especially to the people who have no opportunity to be part of these wonderful virtual communitites we're speaking of. that is, most people in the world. speaking of my recent travels, they have reminded me of that fact. but the answer to yr question, who gets to decide who's in your community, well, hey, congress sets which congressional district you're in, aren't you satisfied with that? ;-) ->Also, as discussed earlier, just because someone puts one of ->these things up, doesn't mean that your ->hypothetically-outraged-disenfranchised-person-who-lives-on-that-block ->can't take it down again, or point it at a urinal, or even send ->a denial of service attack to the server that hosts the ->project... true. maybe i should start making black arrows to put over the yellow ones, or give away free stickerscrapers, or somehting. hah. ;-) but seriously, yes, i can fight anything that annoys me, theoretically, but that doesn't mean i can't mention that it annoys me, right? ->I'm surprised to see a champion of radical recontextualization indicating ->that permission should be required for public art making of a ->recontextualization bent. (Cheap shot I know...but at least it gets us ->squarely back on topic.) thank you, i don't mind at all. but i've never championed art that intrudes visually on a physical, public space and forces itself on people (unless it's a response to a preexisting intrusion, like billboard modification) and actually, i don't really see the 'recontextualization' in the project. it's just... pointing... but i don't know, don't get me wrong, it's not like i'm totally opposed. i'm just a bit bothered. i didn't really mean it to become such a big deal. i do like what they say in their about page: "Our mission is to transform the way people view and experience the world by providing tools to make the ordinary extraordinary." ->bb> As an effort to get us onto another track, was there anything with even ->a tangential appropriation bent on even a single Live8 bill this past ->Saturday? the whole thing appropriated people's good will toward those less fortunate than them, and directed it in a not very productive direction. here's more of my opinion of live8: http://detritus.net/steev/mt/archives/000403.html and here's a critique of the Make Poverty History campaign that is connected with the Live8 stuff which i havent had time to read all of yet but looks interesting: http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=74&ItemID=8176 smh Steev Hise | steev@detritus.net | http://detritus.net/steev Donate to the Computers for Bolivia Project: http://villaingenio.org/computers/donate.html blog: http://steev.hise.org | gpg public key: http://steev.hise.org/gpgkey.txt ----------------------------------------------------------------- "The income gap between the richest 20 percent and the poorest 20 percent in the world rose from 30:1 in 1960, to 60:1 in 1990, and to 74:1 in 1999, and is projected to reach 100:1 in 2015." - United Nations Human Development Report ----------------------------------------------------------------- From morakanabad at yahoo.ca Thu Jul 7 07:22:25 2005 From: morakanabad at yahoo.ca (Taylor McLaren) Date: Thu Jul 7 08:23:00 2005 Subject: [Rumori] BABY-KILLERS! Message-ID: <20050707142225.85426.qmail@web32415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> You know the spam that you get all the time that has sender names that were obviously generated from a word list? I just got one from Detritus H. Infanticides, and I snickered a little. The RIAA is obviously right to hate you guys. -me __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From steev at detritus.net Thu Jul 7 13:05:59 2005 From: steev at detritus.net (Steev Hise) Date: Thu Jul 7 13:06:04 2005 Subject: [Rumori] to go under the 'weird random emails to detritus.net' category... Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 06:49:23 -0700 From: "Trcheshrecat@yahoo.com" To: info@detritus.net Subject: ummm... ----------------------------------------------------- This message was sent by someone looking at: http://www.detritus.net/contact/ from: 24.61.25.51 ----------------------------------------------------- Go on Graig's List under free stuff...there is a free "Large Glazed double set Porcelain Tub-Sink"...they ask you just take 2-3 bags of detritus. Maybe you can just take the Detritus. This was the first I have ever heard of this. (Detritus I mean) So um, ya that was about it. Take care. From pan at sensoryresearch.com Sun Jul 10 15:27:33 2005 From: pan at sensoryresearch.com (Pan) Date: Sun Jul 10 15:55:57 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Plundercast Stream Tonight Message-ID: <94E5E503-879F-4A9D-A155-EA2692DBF376@sensoryresearch.com> This week's installation of Plundercast again features DJs and performers from diverse places across the globe. We've fine tuned the website for easier navigation, listening and feedback. Tune in for live collage, electronica and experimental sounds until late tonight. 6:00PM - 3:00AM EDT (22:00 - 07:00 GMT) http://www.plundercast.net/ Pan From steev at detritus.net Mon Jul 11 08:28:55 2005 From: steev at detritus.net (Steev Hise) Date: Mon Jul 11 08:28:59 2005 Subject: [Rumori] last chance for some archive material Message-ID: hi, i'm discontinuing a bunch of the audio stuff in the Detritus archive. A lot of it is available elswhere now, or else I figure just about everyone who wants it has downloaded it already, plus we're switching to a new hosting situation where diskspace will be more dear. if you haven't got it yet, go for it. I've raised the bandwidth throttle really really high so it should be easy. In august this stuff will go away: plunderphonic, U2 Negativland, KLF, and probably the Mystery Tapes. http://detritus.net/archive/ smh Steev Hise | steev@detritus.net | http://detritus.net/steev Donate to the Computers for Bolivia Project: http://villaingenio.org/computers/donate.html blog: http://steev.hise.org | gpg public key: http://steev.hise.org/gpgkey.txt ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Tommorrow, the first good-looking woman I see, I'm not going to fall in love with her. That'll show her." - Bill, in Hal Hartley's "Simple Men" ----------------------------------------------------------------- From steev at detritus.net Mon Jul 11 15:56:52 2005 From: steev at detritus.net (steev@detritus.net) Date: Mon Jul 11 15:56:58 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Detritus Update: More about Archives Message-ID: ((((((((((((((((( Detritus Update: More about Archives ))))))))))))))))) July 11, 2005 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://detritus.net/blog/archives/000413.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ detritus.net-unthrottled-archive.png -- Powered by Movable Type Version 2.661 http://www.movabletype.org/ From steev at detritus.net Mon Jul 18 09:50:34 2005 From: steev at detritus.net (steev@detritus.net) Date: Mon Jul 18 09:50:41 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Detritus Update: Thought Thieves Film Festival Counters Microsoft's Message-ID: (( Detritus Update: Thought Thieves Film Festival Counters Microsoft's )) July 18, 2005 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://detritus.net/blog/archives/000420.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ THOUGHT THIEVE$ is a short film showcase about corporate appropriation of knowledge, culture, and creativity. It is a grassroots response to the Micro$oft short film competition of the same name. This version of THOUGHT THIEVE$ is about big companies stealing and profiting from the knowledge commons. Think about it: how would you feel if you saw your cultural traditions, collective creativity, thousands-year-old seed strains, indigenous medicinal knowledge, or even your very genetic code being passed off as the property of some multinational corporation? What would you do? find out more. -- Powered by Movable Type Version 2.661 http://www.movabletype.org/ From boster at pobox.com Fri Jul 22 15:22:20 2005 From: boster at pobox.com (Bob Boster) Date: Fri Jul 22 15:23:00 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Register article on CC Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050722151534.03220e78@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> bb> (apologies to anyone else also reading microsound, but thought this was of interest...) My reaction to this is that the whole conversation is getting more interesting, if less urgent, as we have all had time to see both the general availability of marginal channels without penalty and that the kaleidoscopic rate of new technologies will continue to make the entire subject matter more and more convoluted... While I dislike being consigned to a "boundary case", and I think he misses the whole subthread of the argument that copyright has destroyed the possibility of some non-technophilic cultural threads continuing to evolve through time (like the blues, for instance), I can't say I actually disagree with most of the content here. >http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/21/creativity/ > From bbrace at eskimo.com Sat Jul 23 08:39:39 2005 From: bbrace at eskimo.com ({ brad brace }) Date: Sat Jul 23 08:39:46 2005 Subject: [Rumori] The Global Islands Project In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050722151534.03220e78@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050722151534.03220e78@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Global Islands Project -- ongoing series of multi-media pdf-ebooks -- Island 1.0 is Ambergris Caye, Belize Island 2.0 is Koh Si Chang, Thailand Global Islands Project: Island 1.0 -> http://bbrace.net/islands/island1/island1.html or http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/islands/island1/island1.html -- over 800 images and hour-long audiotrack -- 69mb -- (acrobat 6) Island 2.0 -> http://bbrace.net/islands/island2/island2.html or http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/islands/island2/island2.html -- over 535 images and hour-long audiotrack -- 78mb -- (acrobat 6) /:b From steev at detritus.net Sat Jul 23 12:09:53 2005 From: steev at detritus.net (Steev Hise) Date: Sat Jul 23 12:09:57 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Register article on CC In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050722151534.03220e78@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> Message-ID: on Fri, 22 Jul 2005 Bob Boster told me: ->While I dislike being consigned to a "boundary case", and I think he misses ->the whole subthread of the argument that copyright has destroyed the ->possibility of some non-technophilic cultural threads continuing to evolve ->through time (like the blues, for instance), I can't say I actually ->disagree with most of the content here. yes. what an interesting article. thanx bob. i'm really interested in what people on this list think of the assertion it makes that "re-mix culture" has been "on the retreat for ten years now," and that "People simply ran out of patience with jumpy, glitchy cross cuts." he says some other really biting almost nasty stuff about computer nerds and remix culture too. i think i'm out of touch so i can't begin to say if any of it is true. any thoughts, anyone? maybe the author is just a bitter DJ/geek wannabe? smh Steev Hise | steev@detritus.net | http://detritus.net/steev Donate to the Computers for Bolivia Project: http://villaingenio.org/computers/donate.html blog: http://steev.hise.org | gpg public key: http://steev.hise.org/gpgkey.txt ----------------------------------------------------------------- "The Thirsty Bear has the added benefit of appearing trendy, which my mom will like. It will make her feel like I am including in her in my young, hip, life, even though I rarely leave my apartment." -Joshua Davis, "Drinking with Mom" ----------------------------------------------------------------- From at at ankitoner.com Sun Jul 24 03:03:00 2005 From: at at ankitoner.com (Anki Toner) Date: Sun Jul 24 02:58:05 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Register article on CC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42E36754.3070009@ankitoner.com> --- i'm really interested in what people on this list think of the assertion it makes that "re-mix culture" has been "on the retreat for ten years now," and that "People simply ran out of patience with jumpy, glitchy cross cuts." --- i think i'm out of touch so i can't begin to say if any of it is true. any thoughts, anyone? I can't believe it. Or maybe you really are quite out of touch. To me, the article was just a pile of short-sighted narrow-minded biased bullshit. Since I deleted the mail with the link, I can't quote. (I can't read it again to doublecheck my impression either). But this "people simply ran out of patience" bit is enough: What people is he talking about? What people was remix culture supposed to address to? If it was a remix culture that only adressed DJ/geek wannabes, it might as well have been on the retreat for ten years now (or simply never been worth considering). Or maybe that guy just turned thirty. Probably that's why he ran out of patience with jumpy, glitchy cross cuts... I hope I have hurt nobody's feelings by expressing my sunday morning thoughts... Anki Toner Steev Hise wrote: >on Fri, 22 Jul 2005 Bob Boster told me: > >->While I dislike being consigned to a "boundary case", and I think he misses >->the whole subthread of the argument that copyright has destroyed the >->possibility of some non-technophilic cultural threads continuing to evolve >->through time (like the blues, for instance), I can't say I actually >->disagree with most of the content here. > >yes. what an interesting article. thanx bob. > >i'm really interested in what people on this list think of the assertion it >makes that "re-mix culture" has been "on the retreat for ten years now," and >that "People simply ran out of patience with jumpy, glitchy cross cuts." > >he says some other really biting almost nasty stuff about computer nerds and >remix culture too. > >i think i'm out of touch so i can't begin to say if any of it is true. any >thoughts, anyone? >maybe the author is just a bitter DJ/geek wannabe? > >smh > >Steev Hise | steev@detritus.net | http://detritus.net/steev >Donate to the Computers for Bolivia Project: http://villaingenio.org/computers/donate.html >blog: http://steev.hise.org | gpg public key: http://steev.hise.org/gpgkey.txt >----------------------------------------------------------------- >"The Thirsty Bear has the added benefit of appearing trendy, >which my mom will like. It will make her feel like I am >including in her in my young, hip, life, even though >I rarely leave my apartment." > -Joshua Davis, "Drinking with Mom" >----------------------------------------------------------------- > > >_______________________________________________ >Rumori mailing list >Rumori@detritus.net >http://detritus.net/mailman/listinfo/rumori >older archives: http://detritus.net/contact/rumori/ > > From steev at detritus.net Sun Jul 24 06:11:42 2005 From: steev at detritus.net (Steev Hise) Date: Sun Jul 24 06:11:47 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Re: Reg reader comment: On Creativity, Computers and Copyright (fwd) Message-ID: Orlowski responds to my comment on his article! pretty amusing. smh ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 00:34:58 -0700 From: Andrew Orlowski To: steev hise Subject: Re: Reg reader comment: On Creativity, Computers and Copyright On Jul 23, 2005, at 12:22 PM, steev hise wrote: > your article seems filled with an unneccesary amount of bile and > bitterness. where did you get that from? and what an odd subject to > vent at. What did Creative Commons ever do to you? Sure, maybe it's > a bad idea, but why be so mean about it? Maybe I've missed some age- > old personal feud that's been going on between you and lessig? > > Still, you make some interesting points, even if they're veiled in > hyperbole and spitefulness. I believe what that the case notes you provide here are called "projection" - when a beleaguered individual projects their own personal failings onto an antagonist. a From steev at detritus.net Sun Jul 24 06:33:57 2005 From: steev at detritus.net (Steev Hise) Date: Sun Jul 24 06:34:00 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Register article on CC In-Reply-To: <42E36754.3070009@ankitoner.com> Message-ID: on Sun, 24 Jul 2005 Anki Toner told me: ->I can't believe it. Or maybe you really are quite out of touch. you can't believe i'm out of touch? i can't believe that! ;-) i only said that because i've not really been paying attention to new music lately. i can count on one hand the CDs i bought in 2004. this is more because of a desire to reduce spending of disposable income than anything else. ->Or maybe that guy just turned thirty. Probably that's why he ran out of ->patience with jumpy, glitchy cross cuts... i still love jumpy, glitchy cross cuts, and i'm way over 30. smh Steev Hise | steev@detritus.net | http://detritus.net/steev Donate to the Computers for Bolivia Project: http://villaingenio.org/computers/donate.html blog: http://steev.hise.org | gpg public key: http://steev.hise.org/gpgkey.txt ----------------------------------------------------------------- "I cannot think of a time when we have had a region emerge as suddenly to become as strategically significant as the Caspian." -Dick Cheney, 1998, as CEO of Halliburton Oil ----------------------------------------------------------------- From smcquillen at mac.com Sun Jul 24 10:36:11 2005 From: smcquillen at mac.com (Steve McQuillen) Date: Sun Jul 24 11:10:09 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Re: Reg reader comment: On Creativity, Computers and Copyright (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13364B68-70FE-49FE-B2EF-8D2B82A9F497@mac.com> What an idiotic retort that was. Britons can be myopic, too. Here's a big fuck you, Andy. On Jul 24, 2005, at 9:11 AM, Steev Hise wrote: > > Orlowski responds to my comment on his article! pretty amusing. > smh > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 00:34:58 -0700 > From: Andrew Orlowski > To: steev hise > Subject: Re: Reg reader comment: On Creativity, Computers and > Copyright > > > On Jul 23, 2005, at 12:22 PM, steev hise wrote: > > >> your article seems filled with an unneccesary amount of bile and >> bitterness. where did you get that from? and what an odd subject to >> vent at. What did Creative Commons ever do to you? Sure, maybe it's >> a bad idea, but why be so mean about it? Maybe I've missed some age- >> old personal feud that's been going on between you and lessig? >> >> Still, you make some interesting points, even if they're veiled in >> hyperbole and spitefulness. >> > > I believe what that the case notes you provide here are called > "projection" - when a beleaguered individual projects their own > personal failings onto an antagonist. > > a > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rumori mailing list > Rumori@detritus.net > http://detritus.net/mailman/listinfo/rumori > older archives: http://detritus.net/contact/rumori/ > From pl1x at earthlink.net Sun Jul 24 11:18:57 2005 From: pl1x at earthlink.net (PeterALopez) Date: Sun Jul 24 11:19:03 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Register article on CC Message-ID: <26815003.1122229138179.JavaMail.root@wamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Mr. Orlowski seems to be a Dvorak link friend: http://www.badpress.net/ilike.html and Dvorak went to great lengths to get an opinion which might might explain to him the merits of CC: from http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1838244,00.asp "I have begged critics of the system, such as The Register's Andrew Orlowski, to explain to me how Creative Commons works or what it's supposed to do that current copyright law doesn't do. He says, "It does nothing." That's some lengthy multi sourced investigation. These two are tag teaming this one for some reason. The last sentence of the Register article shows one of the authors questionable insights: "Creative Commons is a cute pose, but the problems it seeks to remedy go unsolved. Finding a way to reward creators, which the project doesn't even attempt to address, remains more urgent as ever. ????" It seems, that it's all about the pay day with this statement, but that's not a goal of CC, imo. The fact that when a creator uses CC material to create, they don't have to worry about going through the non creative process of requesting permission, that seems like a reward to me. Not of cash but precious time and energy. A great blog post about the permission requesting game can be read at: http://www.darknet.com/2005/07/when_the_studio.html The point being: "This is the quandary millions of us face today: The Hollywood studios demand that we ask for permission to borrow from their works ???????? and then they deny our requests as a matter of course." Now yes a new solution to getting artists funds easierly has not come about. And it seems unlikely that the world will change it's position that artists create and eat the initial production/distribution costs and thus funds from the selling of the creative works helps the author, if they so choose, to continue working. It's about the future creative effort not the recouping of costs, in some cases. Chuck D in a cnn podcast (~30 minutes in) phrases it more elloquently: "You can't totally emmerse (art) into the context of commerce, so you want the fan to enjoy what you have to offer and you want to consider what they can spend as a donation, as suppost to something they feel they have to spend their money on." http://www.cnn.com/services/podcasting/ File Sharing (7:53 p.m. ET, June 2) [Renay San Miguel on peer-to-peer file sharing and the music industry.] This for me is one of the divisions between the corporate industry system and CC. Their goals differ. One wants to be heard more then getting every possible compensation of every presentation of the work. the other believes they need to be payed (beacuse they've spent so much upfront) before you enjoy. they both """"work"""" for now. a fun post to the FC-discuss list about the original Dvorak article shows that the author is not always aware of what the company which pays him is up to: from the Dvorak article: "Why not commercial purposes? What difference does it make, if everyone is free and easy about this? In other words, a noncommercial site could distribute a million copies of something and that's okay, but a small commercial site cannot deliver two copies if it's for commercial purposes. What is this telling me?" Mr. Warner Wrote: "My favorite part is the "Reprint" button at the bottom of Dvorak's article which, when clicked, asks you if you're going to reprint it for commercial use or noncommercial use and requires you to purchase a license only if you're commercial." The random blanket statements with no reference, really isn't much to pay attention too. I don't even know where to start with the jump glitch statement. If you view it from the majority of the public's perception, they've never been into glitch as i define it. (and since my definition is my own and not written here, how's the weather by you?) as for remixing on the retreat for ten years. i think that's off. it's more like 15, for corporate industry releases, elsewhere, it's growing every year. technology made it easier for people like me to get in the game. I didn't know about remix culture 5 years ago, yet i'm discussing it now. (first embarrising rumori post (06/2001) and yes viriginia it's about star wars... http://detritus.net/contact/rumori/200106/0158.html) Dvorak gets briefly into his problem with copyright as it stands. the idea that Picassso's work is covered by the ever expanding system is something he's against. but he doesn't have any ideas on how to fix that problem, so he's attacking a solution to another aspect of copyright which people had found fault with, as if one solution was to solve everything. he's frustrated. maybe the article is projection of some form. PeterALopez From pan at sensoryresearch.com Mon Jul 25 13:18:54 2005 From: pan at sensoryresearch.com (Pan) Date: Mon Jul 25 13:19:13 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Register article on CC In-Reply-To: <26815003.1122229138179.JavaMail.root@wamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <26815003.1122229138179.JavaMail.root@wamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: I should point out that YourMacLIfe radio show has an award they give out each week to journalists who write irresponsible and/or ill- researched articles. I'll give you one guess as to the name of the award... and who it's named after :) Pan On Jul 24, 2005, at 2:18 PMGMT-04:00, PeterALopez wrote: > Dvorak From rizzi at browbeat.com Thu Jul 28 01:54:07 2005 From: rizzi at browbeat.com (Mike Rizzi) Date: Thu Jul 28 03:04:42 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Album Art Modification In-Reply-To: from "Steev Hise" at Jul 24, 2005 06:11:42 AM Message-ID: Pretty funny album cover art modification on EBay at http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-FEELIES-Crazy-Rhythms-LP-1980-Original-Stiff-Issue_W0QQi temZ4750616299QQcategoryZ306QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem The original cover looks like this http://cgi.ebay.com/FEELIES-Crazy-Rhythms-CD-1990-MINT-A-M-Paint-it-Black_W0QQit emZ4750715657QQcategoryZ307QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem I especially like the use of Bella Abzug. mike From steev at detritus.net Thu Jul 28 08:01:59 2005 From: steev at detritus.net (steev@detritus.net) Date: Thu Jul 28 08:02:04 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Detritus Update: Almost Enough to Make One Swear Off Caipirinhas Message-ID: ((( Detritus Update: Almost Enough to Make One Swear Off Caipirinhas ))) July 28, 2005 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://detritus.net/blog/archives/000429.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A Saatchi ad campaign for a Brazilian liquor company has been spray-painting stencils of the Rio de Janiero Jesus statue, dressed in t-shirt and bluejeans, around London. Real street artists are angry and are fighting back. London hipsters aren't sure what to think. -- Powered by Movable Type Version 2.661 http://www.movabletype.org/ From mattdavignon at hotmail.com Thu Jul 28 11:45:42 2005 From: mattdavignon at hotmail.com (matt davignon) Date: Thu Jul 28 12:35:30 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Detritus Update: Almost Enough to Make One Swear OffCaipirinhas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That also happened around San Francisco a couple years ago, where "Peace Love Penguin" stencils where spray painted around Haight Street and the Mission districts for several months. Just about everyone thought it was just some cute graffiti until IBM launched phase 2 of that ad campaign, which put the same design on their billboards for some IBS/Linux product. >From: steev@detritus.net >Reply-To: "Detritus discussion list." >CC: rumori@detritus.net >Subject: [Rumori] Detritus Update: Almost Enough to Make One Swear >OffCaipirinhas >Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:01:59 -0700 > >((( Detritus Update: Almost Enough to Make One Swear Off Caipirinhas ))) > > July 28, 2005 > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >http://detritus.net/blog/archives/000429.html > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >A >Saatchi ad campaign for a Brazilian liquor company has been >spray-painting stencils of the Rio de Janiero Jesus statue, dressed in >t-shirt and bluejeans, around London. Real street artists are angry >and are fighting back. London hipsters aren't sure what to think. > >-- >Powered by Movable Type >Version 2.661 >http://www.movabletype.org/ > > >_______________________________________________ >Rumori mailing list >Rumori@detritus.net >http://detritus.net/mailman/listinfo/rumori >older archives: http://detritus.net/contact/rumori/ From pl1x at earthlink.net Thu Jul 28 12:51:48 2005 From: pl1x at earthlink.net (PeterALopez) Date: Thu Jul 28 12:51:54 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Detritus Update: Almost Enough to Make One Swear OffCaipirinhas Message-ID: <16795599.1122580308778.JavaMail.root@wamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Here are some more urban environment corporate campaigns and their outcomes. http://www.forbes.com/2002/11/12/cz_as_1111graffiti_print.html Example: When: October (2002) Where: New York City What: Butterfly decals Brought To You By: Microsoft Intended Message: Follow the fluttering clutter to MSN! To promote its new MSN 8 Internet service, Microserfs plastered Manhattan sidewalks and walls with plastic butterfly decals. Actual Message: "We apologize to the City of New York and the people of New York City. We made a mistake with the decals, and we take full responsibility for what happened. We are working with city officials to clean up the decals immediately," said Microsoft Vice President Yusuf Mehdi, after violating New York City Department of Transportation code. Legal? Try again. -----Original Message----- From: matt davignon Subject: RE: [Rumori] Detritus Update: Almost Enough to Make One Swear OffCaipirinhas That also happened around San Francisco a couple years ago, where "Peace Love Penguin" stencils where spray painted around Haight Street and the Mission districts for several months. Just about everyone thought it was just some cute graffiti until IBM launched phase 2 of that ad campaign, which put the same design on their billboards for some IBS/Linux product. >From: steev@detritus.net >Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:01:59 -0700 > >((( Detritus Update: Almost Enough to Make One Swear Off Caipirinhas ))) > July 28, 2005 >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >http://detritus.net/blog/archives/000429.html >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >A >Saatchi ad campaign for a Brazilian liquor company has been >spray-painting stencils of the Rio de Janiero Jesus statue, dressed in >t-shirt and bluejeans, around London. Real street artists are angry >and are fighting back. London hipsters aren't sure what to think. From steev at detritus.net Fri Jul 29 06:15:48 2005 From: steev at detritus.net (Steev Hise) Date: Fri Jul 29 06:15:54 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Register article on CC In-Reply-To: <26815003.1122229138179.JavaMail.root@wamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Here's another clue, perhaps, to Orlowski's bad mood, and perhaps clue that he's wrong (or right?). the July issue of Wired's cover topic is "Remix Culture": http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.07/ with stories about Gorillaz, fan fiction, Tarantino, and an autobiographical piece by william gibson, "Confessions of a cut & paste artist.". smh Steev Hise | steev@detritus.net | http://detritus.net/steev Donate to the Computers for Bolivia Project: http://villaingenio.org/computers/donate.html blog: http://steev.hise.org | gpg public key: http://steev.hise.org/gpgkey.txt ----------------------------------------------------------------- "It must be art, because it sure as hell isn't anything else." - Brian Thomas ----------------------------------------------------------------- From steev at detritus.net Fri Jul 29 06:29:38 2005 From: steev at detritus.net (Steev Hise) Date: Fri Jul 29 06:29:41 2005 Subject: [Rumori] Detritus Update: Almost Enough to Make One Swear OffCaipirinhas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on Thu, 28 Jul 2005 matt davignon told me: ->That also happened around San Francisco a couple years ago, where "Peace ->Love Penguin" stencils where spray painted around Haight Street and the ->Mission districts for several months. Just about everyone thought it was ->just some cute graffiti until IBM launched phase 2 of that ad campaign, ->which put the same design on their billboards for some IBS/Linux product. not just SF, also NYC and other big cities. i have one of the (heavily used) stencils, that a friend procured somehow in new york. here's a list recently posted by Wooster Collective of what brands are getting involved with street art: http://www.woostercollective.com/2005/02/whos-getting-involved.html smh Steev Hise | steev@detritus.net | http://detritus.net/steev Donate to the Computers for Bolivia Project: http://villaingenio.org/computers/donate.html blog: http://steev.hise.org | gpg public key: http://steev.hise.org/gpgkey.txt ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Cynicism is what passes for insight when courage is lacking." - Kevin Danaher, Global Exchange -----------------------------------------------------------------