[rumori] re: the curve of art innovation

From: Don Joyce (djATwebbnet.com)
Date: Sat Mar 17 2001 - 02:00:31 PST

>Mime-Version: 1.0
>To: Don Joyce <djATwebbnet.com>, rumoriATdetritus.net
>From: Mark / Negativland <markhATolywa.net>
>Subject: re: the curve of art innovation
>Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 00:22:28 -0800
>Something else to ponder -
>Seems to me ( and correct me if I am wrong) but music and art USED to cause
>much more controversy and debate in our culture - Strauss, Stravinsky,
>Elvis, The Beatles, Sex Pistols, Duchamp, Pollock, Warhol, Burroughs,
>etc....seems to me that in the last 15 years or so, that the frequnecy in
>which this debate and controversy occurs has become less and less ( the
>recent controversy over the very silly SENSATION art show in Brooklyn was
>the first time in years that art was in the news like that)....in our own
>little universe, the controversy over our U2 single was less about ART and
>than about who OWNS art, and the recent very healthy NAPSTER controversy
>is all about the same thing and is the closet thing we have right now to a
>national debate going on over art and music! But it is not about new ideas
>in music. The controversy is all about MONEY.
>Anyway- what I am thinking is this- wether Don is right or not about the
>"end " of music ( and I tend to think he basically is correct, becuase
>President Donny is ALWAYS correct...didnt you RUMPORI people know that??)
>we can see that music and arts ability to strecth things and to cause
>debate and discussion and controversy in our contry has really waned in
>the last 20 years. Why is that? WE can see that art asnd music simply
>dont have that klind of relvance to us anymore as a culkture. They cant
>push buttons like they used to, becuase most of them have ALL BEEN PUSHED!!
>The whole IDEA of an avanty gardey has been absorbed as a marketing ploy.
>Its all ADVERTISING now, and as soon as "we" do any thing "new" they will
>jump all over it, defang it, and sell it back to us.
>Not sure what that means, and I know that observation is probably nothing
>new on this list, but this seems to me like another kind of BRICK WALL
>being hit here, culturally speaking. National "artisttic" controversy is
>now moslty about VIDEO GAMES.
>P.S. Don - please post my last two e-mail comments to RUMPORI ( inclduing
>the one about the dachsophone) since I dont know if it gets to that list
>when I send in like this as I aint an officla RUMPORI person....
>At 11:31 PM -0800 3/16/01, Don Joyce wrote:
>>EXACTLY! What I'm talking about is inventing new musical "letters", not
>>inventing new music out of the ones we have. The fact is music WAS
>>inventing new musical "letters" up until about mid 20th Century. New
>>"letters" to compose with constantly kept appearing in music's total
>>alphabet. Now we have reached the end of the final musical alphabet! Scary,
>>isn't it? Well, not really, as any writer stuck with just 26 letters of a
>>forever complete alphabet will tell you.
>>>rabbit's right.
>>>english uses an alphabet of only 26 letters, and yet ...
>>>see what i mean?
>>>> >I can't prove a negative. Simply give me a "brand new" sonic element in
>>>>>music, or a procedure to make it, and I will tell you where and when
>>>>>it has
>>>>>occured in music BEFORE now as a precedent in the history of music. This
>>>>>ridiculous argument is all about musical precedent... what music might
>>>>>consist of that has not been part of music before. I contend there are NO
>>>>>sonic precedents left to be achieved by modern music.
>>>>It occurs to me that you are having us all on with this "music is dead"
>>>>business. It is exatly the same po-mo argument critics have been making
>>>>for the last 20 years about why ART is dead.
>>>>Am I blowing your cover? The argument that the addition of new kinds of
>>>>sounds integrated into music is the detertmining factor for whether or
>>>>not music itself is new presupposes that the goal of music practice has
>>>>been the addition of new kinds of sounds. What about the directions the
>>>>rest of the post-1964 art world has taken? Works that embody a question
>>>>about the role of music, or which consider new forms that can be
>>>>considered music, for example, do not require "new" sounds to be
>>>>integrtaed. Music went along through centuries of development without
>>>>"new" kinds of sounds (toot, whistle, plunk, boom) without anyone
>>>>complaining about "new" noises.
>>>>I'm teaching this kind of stuff at a University now, so it's all in my
>>>>mind at the moment, but for those who might care, I refer to Crowther,
>>>>Paul, 1990 "Postmodernism in the Visual Arts: A question of ends" in R.
>>>>Boyne and A Rattansi, eds. _Postmodernism and Society_, New York: St.
>>>>Martin's, 1990. 237-59
>>>>This essay pretty much puts the "Art is Dead" controversy to rest and
>>>>probably applies to "Music is Dead" as well.
>>>>Anyone wants me to get into ridiculous explicit details, I will; I'm that
>>>>kind of guy.
>>>>Naked Rabbit P.O. Box 36673 LA CA 90036 ||||| http://www.nakedrabbit.com
>>>>Rumori, the Detritus.net Discussion List
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>>>- - - - - - - - - - -
>>>Lloyd Dunn
>>>The Tape-beatles -- P.O. Box 3326 -- Iowa City IA 52244 -- USA
>>>- - - - - - - - - - -
>>>DURING THE months of April and May 2001, I will be travelling, en route
>>>to Prague (CZR) for an extended stay. If you need to contact me during
>>>this time please use this email address and no other: <llATdetritus.net>.
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