Re: [rumori] enjoy artie Bable Chumpling

From: Ball2k (
Date: Fri Sep 14 2001 - 16:42:53 PDT

Jon Liedetector wrote:

> I basically agree that a lot of new work done with sampling seems to erase
> the line between 'shopping' and 'creativity'. Artists who don't have much
> more to offer than a really huge record collection.

The fools!

> Not too long ago, such juxtapositions seemed inherently political; it
> really has been personally shocking to me over the last twenty years to see
> it slowly infiltrate every level of popular expression and learn that in
> fact, the working method in and of itself isn't INHERENTLY anything.


> The technique that used to provoke useful confusion and crucial questions
> now just provides numbing distractions, it's drug music.

Damn! Damn!

> A lot of people now utilize sampling techniques and think no farther about
> their method than simple personal expression. Which has always been a part
> of it, or course, I'm permanently guilty of this. But now that it's easy,
> a craft in and of itself, now that recordings are being used & organized in
> much the same way that 'notes' and 'melodies' once were -- well,
> recordings are NOT quite as signifier-free. They contain meanings (as
> Hayward manically stated, 'That's a man's LIFE' etc). Not like anyone can
> be aware of ALL the meanings they're invoking when they utilize recorded
> material, but now that a program like ACID exists, it doesn't even occur to
> people that such meanings could even exist.

The fools! The fools!

> This list is a very specialized group of people, it's no surprise that the
> people subscribed to this list draw their work as a response to what
> naturally falls in their path. Totally natural. And of course we're avid
> collectors, I have an unforgivably large music collection, it's a large
> part of who I am. All the rhetoric about responding to the one-way
> barrage with our own work makes sense.

Damn! Damn! Damn!

> But I do sympathize with Hayward's take on this (and he's one of the
> pioneers on integrating tape and studio work into live performance, of
> course, probably why he's so sensitive on the issue). The 'unmediated'
> response that humans have to music can't be charted, and we all know it's
> compromised and altered by recording it. We all know this as if it's
> obvious, but now that 'live' music involves pre-recordings, I have to
> remind myself ten times a day about this 'simple' fact. Now that our
> work involves pre-recorded music, a very simple truth about the experience
> of music is becoming somewhat obscured by our new working methods.

The fools! The fools! The fools!

> ----------------------------------------------------

-No Right To

Were you honestly expecting the edgy, countercultural meme to be permanently
affixed to the sound of the results of the cut-up method? When edgy and
countercultural has been the meme of the mainstream youth culture for fifty

Fool! You were wrong! I am laughing at you HA! HA! HA!

Not forgetting with the hopefulness for humanity and the children are the
future teach them well and let them lead the way, show them all the beauty
they possess inside visualize world peace sandimashighschoolfootballrules etc
etc... that editing, editing, the power you are talking about, is regularly
done by lots of people now, with their videocameras, VCRs, Cassette recorders,
MDs, and even "home computers."
Point: The sound of cut-up recylcing a.k.a. collage will not permanently be
the container for the culture-jamming poetic, but the PROCESS OF EDITING very
well could be.

tr: when people do it for the first time, bingo
   (everybody post about your first time!!!)(blackout)

Which I am so proud them dot-eyed orphans, the Snuggles kids, fans of
Negativland that just all of a sudden started making,
and the

Jon, what exactly is your proof that collage doesn't still carry political
meaning? Because it is popular? Is rock and roll dead? And I suppose they
play Jazz on elevators now - don't make me laugh!

that editiditing, the power cut-up permanently recylcing the container for
the culture- you are talking about lots of people now be jamming poetic, very
well could be, with their videocameras, VCRs, Cassette recorders, MDs, and
home computer, mon.
Pint: The sound of culture a.k.a. collage is regularly done by the PROCESS

Meaning- is it popular?

By the way everybody, I've decided not to ask permission to heckle, heckle,
heckle, without contributing any music or art to the public, ever, if that's
what it looks like I might end up doing (sighs, goes to the window) you see, I
just don't (turns from window, goes to bookcase) have any motivation to
release the music I make (goes to desk, pounds with fist) because it's crap!
crap! crap! anyway...

By the way Jon that's another thing about the artists that don't have much to
offer except for them full record collections is that they are artists so they

Look, they could be passive consumers

I mean, the disdain thing and all, that's cool if that's what you want to do,

But what about the song "Hot In The Airport," doesn't that vindicate Wait a
minute, who are you? Why are you dressed as a nurse? Where am I? Why am I
strapped down? Who are you people?!?!

The cult of virtuosity, the cult of the new, the cult of counterculture, the
cult of senslessness, the cult of modernism, the cult of media awareness,
the cult of mainstream cultural fandom,
(Do people claim to be "in the mainstream" or say "I like mainstream?")
the cult of amateurism, the cult of smarts, the cult of folk music, the cult
of the artist in torment, the cult of individualism

Look, you want to talk to people about the language of music and how it is
being used, so do it, says me, and I don't have to justify my advice with
action especially since you're gonna ignore it anyhow, all of you, you're all
against me, cause nobody cares about little old me and my mood swings...

Oh, wait, that's a good thing! It makes me happy! Yipee! Mood swings are
................Oh, now I'm sleepy. Good night

P.S. WAIT a minute, I get it, you're joking, right? There is no difference
between "shopping" "editing" and "creativity..." refer to "all musical sounds
have been discovered" thread

By the way everybody, I've decided not to ask permission to crap! crap! crap!
without any music contributing art to the public, ever, if that's the music I
make (goes to desk, pounds with fist) because it's what looks like motivation

There is definite culture jamming to be done, as The Christians via "the 700
Club" are calling the disaster a warning from God to America, which message
could not be any clearer, could it, certainly right away the meaning was made
clear yes siree I sent them thirty dollars

Keep making weird collage music for the neurotic children of these freaked out
fanatics! Hello.

Oh no wait, stop, Jon's right, it's been appropriated, it's THEIRS now.

Oh, no, it hasn't been fully appropriated quite yet, so uh, as you were. B
team, start developing a bold new countercultural sound... NOW.

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