Re: [rumori] Re: Burned?

From: Don Joyce (
Date: Thu May 02 2002 - 04:17:07 PDT

"ECONOMICS: here's another fundamental problem, Don: where does
>the money come from? Is it really a tax? So does that mean it
>comes out of everyone's income tax?"

No, it should be limited to Internet users. However we pay for actually
accessing the internet specifically now, the price would be raised (but
only slightly) for everyone doing it, monthly. There's yer millions and
billions of dollars per year for cultural compensation, as and whenever
payment encoded works are transferred or downloaded on-line.

And I also think conglomerates will try flat fee schemes for aggrigated
cultural products, but it will always remain unsatisfying and problematic
as long as free access to that and other stuff remains available just down
the wire, which they will be. The copyright enforcement/persecution game
on-line will continue unabated. The only way out of all that is to think of
the whole damn Internet as a unified, free medium and stop thinking in
terms of individual site income possibilities. The Net has made the old
concept of individualized "property" control increasingly irrelevant and
impossible. We have to step back and view the inside of this whole digital
place as a "no-man's land." But we can still charge to get in the door and
pay the entertainment out of door reciepts, thus also preserving the "no
man's land" that the Internet was always intended to be and always wanted
to be from its inception.

OF COURSE this is never going to happen! But I like the challenge.
Here's ANOTHER problem for you. Under my concept, someone who has inserted
payment encoded content into the internet could then sit home and make a
living downloading and deleting their own work by the millions, getting
paid for each one. Solve this, without incorporating user ID or user
activity tracking, please, and we're in like a greased pig.

>Don, your plan is a great utopian vision. I hope it happens, at
>least as an alternative to a more Orwellian future.
>Just a couple more comments:
>(cynical) POLITICS: if it happens, it will argueably be one of
>the only times in the history of our nation where the government
>actually creates policy in which interests of big business and
>the people are both served at once. I guess by then every human
>will either be an employee of a giant corporation or in jail, so
>the point is moot.
>TECHNOLOGY: the mention of "4-story mainframes" is funny. who
>uses mainframes anymore? not even NASA. I guess banks do so they
>don't have to rewrite their old code to run on cheaper machines.
>But the point is, the processing power isnt the bottleneck. you
>could do the calculations on a small room full of Pentiums, I'm
>sure. By the time this vision occurs, if ever, the job will
>probably be possible on a computer the size of your thumb. No,
>the bottleneck is re-tooling the entire internet. Redesigning
>and replacing every single router, and probably most servers.
>But you're right, they're installing fiber everywhere and doing
>lots of other upgrades for broadband purposes (even though they
>can't convince anyone to really WANT broadband in any mass
>( i think it's likely that instead of an internet-wide scheme,
>there will be 3 or 4 large corporate networks a consumer can
>subscribe to and get all their entertainment - AOLnet, SonyNet,
>and MurdochWeb, or something. you'll just pay for your "infranet"
>like you do cable tv and you wont be able to see anything that's
>on a competing network, and they'll each have their own payment
>schemes and rules. but it won't be the Internet. )
>ECONOMICS: here's another fundamental problem, Don: where does
>the money come from? Is it really a tax? So does that mean it
>comes out of everyone's income tax? Why? Why should I have to
>pay equally for Merzbow and Brittany Spears? What if I don't even
>like music? What if I don't watch television? I don't want to
>have my taxes pay for Baywatch and "Temptation Island".
>PHILOSOPHY: The cultural assumption is just repugnant to me, the
>assumption that ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING will automatically have a
>price tag, and a tally of units moved. I guess that's already
>almost totally the dominant worldview, but I want to fight that,
>not reinforce it with law and technology.
>I guess if the intelligent robots don't eat us all first, we'll
>all just Consume Ourselves to Death.
>cheerily yours,
>Steev Hise, Recovering Jaded Hipster
>*Recycled Culture:
>*Watching power flow:
>*Democratic sound collage generator:
>"it's sort of supposed to be a joke but you know once you've laid down
>that flat
>four to the floor, it's hard to keep laughing because there's so much vomit
>flying out of your mouth in such a continuous rocketing stream."
> -Wobbly
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