Re: [rumori] Fwd: UR Vs SONY

Anki Toner (
Sat, 18 Dec 1999 12:00:00 +0000

Lots of things have been said in the last couple of days. (I am having
trouble with my Internect connection so I can only chack my email from
time to time).

> -> Seems quite the double standard.
> not at all. the difference is in the amount of money involved, and the
> intent. If you're doing it just for a wad of cash, it's not excusable. I
> dont't see why that's so hard to understand.
> perhaps if you want to talk about double standards you can consider the
> double standard that corporations (like sony) have all the rights of an
> individual but none (or very little) of the accountability.
> smh

The fact that Sony has a double standard shouldn't make us have one, and
will not make ME have one. The fact that they lie will not make me lie.
There are some weapons I am not going to use. It's that old statement
about being part of the problem or part of the solution.

The problem with Sony seems to be that they are making a lot of money.
That's what they are meant to do. That's why they exist in the first
place. So the real issue is their existence, which of course leads us to
discuss the capitalist system, &c. There, you can count me in.

But I find childish (and I know what I'm talking about because I've made
that mistake before) to protest being sampled, used or abused by big
corporations just before they are big.

About the UR problem: they can surely make some money from that, either
sueing Sony or dealing with them. They are, though, in a perfect
position. They can choose their side and probably win whatever side they

PS: I insist I am not on Sony's side, Andrew.

> Jason J. Tar wrote:
>When reading UR's statements, I'm a bit confused. Are they upset
>because they don't wish their track heard via a major, or because of the
>money factor? The first would be a valid argument, but as for the

>From the original UR message: "In this case, it is being done as a
method of undercutting the sales of the original."

I never believed UR's motivations. It smelled fishy from the first line.
They probably just sent their message to all the music lists to make
their negociating position stronger. No matter, this has lead this
particular list to some interesting exchange.

>-> If you want them to be allowing you rights to sampling and what not, you
>->need to start by allowing them the same rights in turn.
>There's so much wrong with that sentence I don't even know where to begin.
>Wait, yes i do:
>1. Corporations don't have the right to allow OR disallow
>sampling. It's already our right. Make no mistake, if it was up to
>corporations, you wouldnt breathe or even think without paying them

I completely agree of course. Nobody should have the right to allow or
disallow sampling, just as nobody has (or should have) the right to
claim intellectual property (or any other right) on any song (or on any
other work of art).

>2. I've never advocated the freedom to copy something wholesale and make a
>bunch of money selling the copies.

You seem really uncomfortable about money, Steve. I try not to let money
issues influence the way I think (which is not the same thing than not
thinking about how money influences us and the way we think).

>3. again, even if you think you're
>talking about the same rights, Sony doesnt DESERVE the same rights that
>humans do, because Sony is not a person.

That's what I meant when I said we are discussing the very existence of

>"Even though it's true, they shouldn't believe it, because when I
> wrote it, I thought it was a lie."
> -Kenneth J. Schmidt

Funny you used that one.

>Vicky wrote:
>It doesn't matter to me who asks me not to follow my ideas - the artist or
>the corporation, my response would be the same if asked by either.

"Who are you that I should have to lie?" (was it Bob Dylan who said

Anki Toner (expert on lies)

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