Re: [rumori] Anti-Capital

Steev Hise (
Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:41:34 -0800 (PST)

Wed, 22 Dec 1999 found Jason J. Tar writing:

>I dunno. Guess I'm not looking at the "bigger picture"

that seems to be the crux of the disagreement here. you'd rather ignore
the big picture, and some of us would not.

>society's downfall due to the evils of corporations....a notion which
>these reasons to be against Sony on this particular issue are kinda
>weak and unmerited. Especially given the nature of this list (as I
>understood it).

it seems you've at least partially misunderstood it. imho.

>>total abolition of intellectual property. But, a lot of other things
>>would have to happen first before that. And I don't know if I need or want
>>to go into what all those things are.
>Bother. Wish you would. I guess I just would understand your position
>better if you gave an alternative to corporations, and a means to get there.

I don't have the time, right now at least, and i think it's getting a bit
too far off the focus of this list anyway. And no offense, really, Jason,
but i think you're being like the kid who didnt do his homework and wants
to waste class time having the basics explained to him. I'd really rather
not spend the time and energy explaining things that people like Marx,
Proudhon, Weber, Marcuse, Adam Smith, Jameson, deCerteau, Attali, Barthes
and a host of other great thinkers have already done a much better job
than i ever could. Do some reading and background study. Even Newtonian
mechanics doesnt make much sense till you've taken a first physics course.

>executives at Sony making a living off of Britney Spears? I think the

she's a bad example, a complete fabrication of the record industry.

>You say that like selling/marketing is easy. How many here have sold a few
>thousand records without the assistance of others? Didn't think so. They
>serve a purpose and are necessary (in my opinion). Perhaps they are
>getting too large a share of the profits, but that isn't what you are
>arguing. From what I've read, you would like a system that requires
>everyone to be a jack of all trades, and that seems a bit counterproductive.

yes, in fact, that's what i would prefer. Marx actually thought division
of labor was one of the biggest problems with capitalism.

"Counterproductive"? perhaps. but is "productivity" what life is all
about, Jason? To a capitalist, yes. But there are more important
things, to me, than productivity.

>I think you are both too quick to discredit the abilities and skills of
>business people. They may not be the most ethical, and perhaps that is
>society's fault, but they do have abilities that we benefit from.

Soldiers, trained to kill, have some abilities we sometimes end up
benefitting from, but that doesnt mean we should be in favor of war.

>To take this back to a musical forum, would you really expect a
>label/distributer/whatnot to spend money and time in assisting one in the
>making and releasing of a record/CD/product without some return? They need
>food on their table too. I would think such expectations absurd, if not
>rude as well. They do a service and should be compensated.

Again, the eventual, and admittedly idealistic, end goal (for me) goes
much further, further than you seem to understand. Take away the
labels - take away CDs. Most importantly, take away "product". now we're
getting somewhere... now before you hit that "reply" button, just pause
and think about it for a moment, the causes, the effects. just imagine


Steev Hise, Subversive Radical Hippy Hacker
"Sound can do anything. It can kill."

Rumori, the Discussion List
to unsubscribe, send mail to
with "unsubscribe rumori" in the message body.
Rumori list archives & other information are at

Home | Detrivores | Rhizome | Archive | Projects | Contact | Help | Text Index

[an error occurred while processing this directive] N© Sharerights extended to all.