Ok Dean, thanks.
Well, you know what I think of #1 procedure - meaningless, deceptive, and
arbitrary, putting money in the pockets of only those who have bribed their
way into radio's extremely limited view whether they ever got played
not - worthless in terms of any concept that those that get paid should
actually be the very same ones who get played. A procedure so skewed from
reality that it holds NO justification for existing except that ASCAP is
compulsively self-perpetuating - their reason to exist is to exist, now go
away and don't ruin a good thing.
So #2. The blatantly nonsensical results of relying on #1 has obviously
required SOME kind of cover move to deflect embarrassment and TRY to
appeal to everyone's sense of fairness. But it is no more fair OR accurate
than #1! So now performing artists (who happen to know about this
gift/grant thing or whatever you call it) presumably after proving to some
kind of panel you set up that they were played in some bar somewhere, are
now selected among all other contestants to win prizes from your jury.
Millions available, enter now! Whoever's even heard of this deal anyway
(thanks for bringing it to our attention, FINALLY) or has any idea how to
avail themselves of it? Publicity wont solve it. It's adding insult to
injury for all but those relatively few who "win."
My dear Dean, you are shooting in the dark and you know it. The ONLY point
in trying to pay artists for being played in establishments is to somehow
find out who WAS played in establishments, EVERYONE who was played in EVERY
establishment. Anything else is inadequite to the above goal. And not more
or less inadequate like BMIs payments for radio play where there actually
IS at least the possibility of tracking and tabulating EVERYTHING that
get's played at all stations. This is COMPLETELY inadequate with no hope of
Now you and I both know that finding out EXACTLY what you need to know to
do this fairly is IMPOSSIBLE. You admit this. I understand this. I can't
think of one damn way to possibly do this given the multi-millions of
establishments across this entire land, and don't forget the ones on water,
24- 7, all year long. Even if Big Brother ruled, there is no POSSIBLE
solution to this which will actually be accurate and fair.
So let's take a meeting.
My solution: God obviously does NOT want this to happen. It is one of those
many things He has made IMPOSSIBLE for humans to accomplish, no matter how
much they might like to, in the same category as flying with our arms. So
let's know our limits when we see them and FORGET IT! Setting up these
favoritism prone, arbitrarily partial systems of statistical dart throwing
is an INSULT to our stated goal. A complete mockery. Since we cannot
fulfill our goal, or even come close to doing so, the smartest and most
reasonable thing to do is to CEASE the practice altogether on grounds of
its inherent unfairness. We can certainly defend this withdrawal on the
grounds that our arms just wont grow feathers. Everyone will understand
once they look at the problem. Henceforth, the use of recorded music in
America's establishments shall go completely uncharged for, peroid. And
SOMEBODY bought whatever they're playing out there so it's not like music
makers make nothing from this in any way. But we must give up this
particular income dream we invented in order to maintain our integrity and
remain consistent with our own philosophy of fair pay for artists. Fair pay
for artists when POSSIBLE, and when it's not fair or possible, we wont
pretend it is. And by the way, all the multi-milions of establishment
owners will love us, which they DON'T now. We might even get some free
drinks if we flash our ASCAP ID. Establishment sound system music is now
FREE to all who care to play it. Good Luck, everyone. Long live music.
Any more coffee?
Your solution: Look, we know it doesn't work in any i-dotting, t-crossing
fairness sort of way, but most people outside this organization don't have
much of any clue as to how this is being done and last year's cut for us
was - (pick a number and put a dollar sign in front of it) - which we
really can't afford to lose now that the ol' economy has Bush written all
over it. Look at the jobs we've added on the back of this thing. I mean,
it's just becoming pretty lucrative, especially since we got tough with the
bar and soda shop raids and the litigation, so let's just hope the
criticism dies down like it always does, continue touting how much we DO
send to selected artists, except we shouldn't mention they're "selected,"
lay low until this negative Pho guy forgets about this and moves on to
collage like he always does, and ride this out, right guys? Any more coffee?
Which solution do you find more logical?
Which solution do you think will be followed?
(optional) Which solution more effectively allows fun?
Remember, insanity is just a step away....
>Because you've become so crazed (so, what's new) about the radio sample
>payments to writers and publishers relating to bars, grills and
>restaurants, I feel
>compelled to send you the rest of the private communiqué Steve Winogradsky
>partially post to Pho.
>ASCAP is quite mindful of the fact that radio surveys don't produce the
>picture of what's being performed in non surveyed situations, that's why
>implemented a procedure that takes those non surveyed performances into
>We're the only performing rights society that does so.
>You might question your own performing rights society, BMI, as to why they
>offer such a program.
>Here's my complete statement:
>Because it is impossible to assertion every performance of every song in
>upon thousand of retail establishments across the United States, ASCAP
>writer and publisher members for their performance in these venues in two
>1. Surveys of radio performances are used as surrogates for performances in
>establishments because our sampling experts tell us that, for the most
>played on radio is what's played in most venues, and,
>2. ASCAP has what is known as ASCAPlus - a special awards program for
>whose works aren't performed on radio but whose works are played in unsurveyed
>situations, again, such as the one we are discussing. All ASCAP members are
>eligible to apply for these special awards. As chairman of the committee that
>oversees these awards, I can tell you that they start at a minimum of $100
>go up to several thousand depending on the stature and uniqueness of the
>performances involved. We authorized the distribution of over 1 million
>such awards this year alone.
>Let me take a additional moment to note what individual performances such
>the ones use in the venue we are discussing are worth. Let's say this guy
>soda shop from 12:00 noon to 9:00 at night - 9 hours and let's say he uses
>wall music - 20 3 minute songs an hour - or 180 songs a day. At $300.00 a
>pays 82¢ a day to use 180 songs or 0.00455 per song.
>If 82¢ a day breaks the back of the establishment owner, he's in the wrong
>Don Joyce wrote:
>> "1. Surveys of radio performances are used as surrogates for performances in
>> establishments because our sampling experts tell us that, for the most part,
>> what's played on radio is what's played in most venues"
>> Can you believe this? "Our sampling EXPERTS!" God forbid some form of
>> individual taste or independent recorded music should emerge in some
>> establishment out there across this entire land. Such stuff CAN NEVER
>> benefit from any such breakthrough by being compensated. On WHAT station is
>> the Duke Ellington regailing our 40s soda shop being represented enough to
>> even register?! The Duke's estate WILL NOT BE PAID A CENT of that $300
>> bill! Instead, Brittany Spears will get it! Goddam this to HELL! This is
>> even more stupid than I thought! ABSOLUTELY STUPID! I bet you $300 that the
>> establishments ARE NOT told that this is the billing basis. If I was a
>> music using establishment, I would NOT PAY and COUNTER SUE these
>> presumptuous bastards for lack of representation, especially if I had
>> enough taste to be playing more than the cliched, payola propelled crap
>> radio is forever hooked on. Taxation without representation! This is enough
>> to get me out of the woods and back on the warpath!
>> The fate of sound system music compensation is in the hands of FOOLS. They
>> have NO INTENTION of doing this accurately whatsoever because they have NO
>> ABILITY to do so. "Experts" indeed! A cozy club of grifters ALL! And look
>> how long it took for THIS fact to emerge in this endless thread? Of course,
>> IT'S DOWNRIGHT EMBARRASSING, isn't it! The more illicit the money at stake,
>> the more secret the mechanisms used to steal it. This is an insane formula
>> for pure robbery and the less you know about it the better. Serving artists
>> by billing establishments is BULLSHIT! When billing bears as little
>> relationship to what is being billed as this, you have no right to bill. If
>> you can't do it anything like fair, DON'T DO IT AT ALL.
>> >>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 17:59:47 -0500 (CDT)
>> >>From: "Brandon K. Wiley" <cybATazrael.dyn.cheapnet.net>
>> >> > > ASCAP represents more that 110,000 songwriters, composers and music
>> >> > > publishers. We collect and distribute fees when their music is
>> >> > > played in public places, including on the radio, on TV, in bars,
>> >> > > restaurants, concert halls, shopping centers, skating rinks,
>> >> > > elevators, you name it.
>> >> >
>> >> > But that's not all! ASCAP collects fees when a radio station buys a
>> >> > record! ASCAP collects fees when the radio station plays the record!
>> >> > ASCAP collects fees when that radio broadcast is played in a
>> >> > restaurant!
>> >>Who exactly do all of these fees go to? Surely they don't have someone
>> >>sitting there so that when they play an Aimee Mann song in a bar, Aimee
>> >>Mann gets a nickel.<
>> >To quote a previous message from Dean Kay:
>> >Because it is impossible to assertion every performance of every song in
>> >thousands upon thousand of retail establishments across the United States,
>> >pays its writer and publisher members for their performance in these
>> >two ways:
>> >1. Surveys of radio performances are used as surrogates for performances in
>> >establishments because our sampling experts tell us that, for the most
>> >what's played on radio is what's played in most venues
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