Steev, weren't you the one who brought this whole ethics
issue up on the list in the first place? You sorta threw your
beliefs out on the public table and now you're telling everyone
to reply privately. (I'm sure the fact that they are disagreeing with
you has nothing to do with it.) I respect your list's "scope", and I
have NO particular interest in this thread either (I agree that it stinks),
but please at least try not making it TOTALLY obvious that
you're a list nazi.
One of your purposes here was to create a "community."
This community has like-minded people who share a similar
focus but we WILL go off track sometimes. As long as these
off-topic topics are being discussed intelligently by your community,
I don't see what the harm is. Seeing NEW TOPICS discussed
by a special community with a like-minded focus offers unique
points of view, and helps us all get to know one another, and
GROW as a "community." We don't need 50 posts a week to
accomplish that, either.
As it is, I'm basically afraid to say anything on here (I know for
a fact I'm not alone in that sentiment) because all threads, one
way or another, seem to immediately harness your criticism,
approvals, or disapprovals. We have to read through the archives
and make sure it's NEVER been discussed before, so when new
people join and forget they can read the archives too...they miss out
on the chance to (God forbid) offer a NEW opinion on the old subject
matter. We have to totally make sure the content is relevant to the
list's scope, which I'm sure is mostly an effort to keep the traffic to
a minimum (or to differ this list from snuggles as much as possible.)
We have to check your front page of news stories (once a topic was
brought up here, the poster was surprised it wasn't discussed here
before, and you said that was because you posted it on your webpage
and didn't want to be redundant...which is funny because you have
posted both on the list AND in your news archives before.)
And worst of all, we have to willingly accept the fact that posting a topic
to this list has to met your approval, and undoubtedly you WILL reply to
it almost immediately. That is killing a lot of potentially interesting
When you are the FIRST person to reply, and you rip the post to shreds, no one
else wants to reply in fear of getting the same treatment.
Don't worry, Steev, I'd be surprised if anyone on here agreed with
me on the public list. People are afraid to say anything negative about
you because you have done (and still do) many wonderful things for
the found sound art community. You are a strong and intelligent voice
for us, and I respect nearly everything you had said in past interviews
in the media, and many things you have said right here on this list.
I respect your mission statement behind Detritus and rumori, and many
of us are proud of you for making all this possible. In fact, we have
many mutual acquaintances who have told me you are a VERY swell
guy, and should we ever meet, we'd really get along. They also admit
that on rumori you often behave like a Mr. Poopypants, but they all love
you anyway. Several years ago before I started Press The Button, YOU
were one of the kind folks on snuggles who recommended a variety of
great books to read and learn from, and pointed me to a vast amount
of resources so I could see what others were doing, pick and choose
what I liked & disliked, and this all helped shape the first year of our
program into something more original than it could have been. I thank
you for that.
Though I am afraid to cross paths with you on this list because
you are GREAT at ripping someone's post to shreds, coming down
hard on them with that big vocal hammer of yours. That makes you
quite intimidating, and also makes the notion of posting here unappealing.
It always feels stuffy and restrictive in here to me, but maybe that's your
I wish the great new projects being discussed on Snuggles would also be
discussed here, but folks are afraid to bring them up for the same reasons
I don't like posting here too often. If you want things ALWAYS to truly be
on topic, you should probably make this a moderated list. I'm willing to
bet you've thought about it before.
Otherwise, if you really want this list to act more like a community,
you need to back off more often.
I apologize if I offended you, but that's just the way I feel. I hope this
doesn't hurt the warm and fuzzy relationship we already had.
At 07:26 AM 3/27/2002 -0800, Steev Hise wrote:
>on Wed, 27 Mar 2002 afbryanATmac.com told me:
>->This list has usually been interesting for the short time I've been on,
>->but this thread stinks like a funky batch o' collard greens.
>well it's also pretty off-topic so i've been debating it with
>peter privately. if anyone wants me to repeat all the points i
>made to him i can re-send them to you privately. otherwise, let's
>let it rest.
>i can see some here don't have the same beliefs about artist's
>responsiblity and ethics that i have, but that's fine, and that's
>not really the scope of this list.
>Steev Hise, Technical Thug
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