Re: [rumori] outlaw (fwd)

Steev (
Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:22:14 +0000 ( )

On Sun, 11 Jul 1999, Anki Toner wrote:

>>People need
>> to understand that there can be a motivation for it that is not about
>> money. By condoning outright piracy we muddle that point.
>The fan bootlegging a complete Bob Dylan tour (73 conceerts all in all)
>surely has a much higher motivation than money. It's just that also he
>(and not only Negativland) needs some money to do so. I mention the Negs
>because they have already debated on that.

ok, you're right, a lot of bootlegging happens because of an honest love
for the material, which is not getting put out by the artist's label for
whatever reason. but from the label's point of view it's a much bigger
ground for legal action, because a bootleg album is something the artist
could possibly release himself and make money for himself and the label.
whereas a plunderphonic-style Dylan release, it's debateable whether
that's really taking away business from the actual artist.

>Of course, there are cases of straight piracy. But even those, I feel
>they just prove that CDs are too expensive. If it can be done for 6
>dollars, why are they charging us eighteen? (PS: I don't know, as you
>probably noticed, the price of a CD in USA).

(oh, CDs are free here, didnt you hear? heh. )

again, justifying theft with high prices, while fine in our "fantasy
world", isnt going to fly in the real courts. I mean, I agree with you to
a point I dub stuff all the time because i cant afford evreything i want,
but it's a separate issue. To get artistic appropriation confused with
people lobbying for cheaper CDs is again, muddling things.

>> there are limits to everything. fact of life. ( case in point - on
>> another list i'm on there's been a huge argument about a performance
>> artist who goes by the name Death Squad, who did a show here in san

>What list is that?

it's an announcement list for 23Five, a san francisco-based "noise music"
organization that puts on lots of events around here. They lean toward the
power-electronics/wall-of-noise end of things. you can probably find more
info at

>> ->That I know nobody has destroyed any work. I just downloaded all the
>> ->"destroyed works". They seemed healthy.
>> "ALL"? hah. you've got to be kidding.
>I didn't buy ALL the "legal" works either.

I still don't have the energy to make a list, but there are tons of
works out there i'd like to hear that i can't. By "destroyed" i don't
neccesarily mean physically destroyed, like in the case of the KLF being
forced to burn the unsold copies of "1987", or Oswald with Plunderphonic.
I mean works that may not have even been released because of fear of
litigation. Or work not even finished, mixed down, etc. work you've never
even heard of, because it was "destroyed" before it even got any

here's a great example. a couple months ago somebody in the sf bay area
did a little song made entirely out of samples from star wars. Somehow the
Bay Guardian found out about it and did a little blurb about it, but the
guy said he would not be releasing it, for copyright reasons, but if you
wanted to CALL him he would play it for you over the phone.

now this is just ridiculous. the piece is obviously good enough to get a
write-up in a major paper, but no one can hear it unless they bother this
guy at home?

this is what i call "a-priori destruction".

> I totally agree with you about "Snuggles". Your list is much better,
>though sometimes redundant with "Pluderphonia", which is also OK.

well, we've been here longer! like i said they should all just come over
here. heh.

>> here's a good question: is an intolerance for fools the same as
>> censorship?
>This is a good question indeed! Anuway, the concept of "fools" depends
>of your own psychic situation. I mean, there are days when there seem to
>be more fools around, and that probably depends on you. Apart from that,
>I also exert a great deal of intolerance for fools. But I am not
>generally proud of it.

 i'm not proud or ashamed, though i guess tolerance of anything is a
virtue. my psychic and vocational situation is such that i suffer fools
all too often (for one thing, i'm a professional system administrator.


Steev Hise, WebSlinger
recycled art site:
"The savage inequalities of the past will extend into the wired
 savagry of the future."
                -Monty Neill

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